Food and Health Fact #205

My interview with Caryn Dugan and Dr. James Loomis appears below. But first, a few other things:

• I can be found on X (formerly Twitter) here, where I post and share items (mostly) related to food and health.

• The Food and Health Facts YouTube channel, featuring short interviews from the CES conference and other events, can be accessed here.

• An article I wrote earlier this week about the glorious history of Sports Illustrated, which is now a shell of its former self, can be accessed here.

• Apologies if the formatting of the Food and Health Facts email looks screwy (as it does sometimes in Outlook). The tech team is working with the newsletter host to try to sort it out.  

Caryn Dugan is the founder of the Center for Plant-Based Living, which is based in the St. Louis area. James Loomis, MD, is the medical director of the Barnard Medical Center, in Washington, DC. He has also served as the team internist for the St. Louis Rams and the St. Louis Cardinals. Together, they operate The Doc & Chef, a YouTube channel that features cooking demonstrations and a discussion of nutrition.

Caryn, what’s the origin of the Center for Plant-Based Living (CPBL) and what is its focus?

When I first started STL Veg Girl in 2011, my focus was simply to help people add more plants to their plates. I did this by teaching at schools, community centers, restaurant events, etc. I witnessed often how people who found excellent health results (type II diabetes remission, lowered cholesterol levels, maintained weight loss) because of more plants on plates would then begin to re-introduce the foods they ate before becoming ill. As a result, their chronic health conditions would reemerge.

I was nearly banging my head against the wall trying to figure out why the heck someone, anyone would allow this to happen. I am a certified health and wellness coach (CHWC) and when I put that hat on and looked at the landscape a little differently, I saw what was needed: support! People need support when they change their lifestyle! Think about it: when someone wants to stop smoking, stop drinking, or become more active, those support systems are readily in place and people are often cheered for their new lifestyle choices.

But, boy, you change your diet and everyone’s a critic, and you better have a Ph.D. in whatever it is you're now eating to defend yourself! The science behind a plant-strong diet is irrefutable. But I’ve seen that without a community of support who can also offer resources, the likelihood of someone maintaining that change, even after experiencing enormous health benefits, can be iffy.  

So, in 2017 I searched the country to see who might have a place where people could gather to receive this support and I found nothing. So, for two years I saved everything I had and on the anniversary of my dad’s passing (the impetus for me going plant-based), we opened the nation’s first and still only plant-based nutrition and culinary education center. 

Do you need to be in St. Louis to take advantage of CPBL?  

Thanks to Covid (ah-hem), no, you do not. Like most businesses, we, too, pivoted and added a virtual component to our business. We now have what we call a Streaming PLUS virtual membership. Streaming, because you can stream any of our 50+ cooking classes at any time, plus you receive benefits like access to a members only live cooking class every month (I encourage members to cook along for added coaching), a monthly group support call, entrance to our private Facebook group and full access to me at any time. Dr. Loomis also joins the group call on a quarterly basis, where members enjoy an ask-the-doc session.

Why did you start The Doc & Chef?

(Caryn) We found that people were asking us the same questions. Take protein for example: everyone wants to know where you get your protein on a plant-based diet. Jim has the scientific answer and I have the culinary answer. We had an “ah-ha” moment where we thought, “We should put these two things together!” So we started a YouTube channel that combines Jim’s great way of explaining the science in layman’s terms and my casual way of putting together a meal that focuses around the topic at hand. Each episode focuses on a specific topic and lasts 10-20 minutes. The episodes are also supported by a scientific blog post, including links to research, because we want to be sure all the information we present is evidence based. This format has been praised for its clarity, our engaging rapport, and its practicality.

In addition to the YouTube channel, we also do live Doc and Chef shows. In 2023, we presented at the Fairfax Vegfest, the St. Louis Vegfest, and several health immersions. In 2024, we are presenting on a Health Optimization Cruise in January, at the Planted Expos in Vancouver, Toronto, and Seattle, and at the first Air Force Lifestyle & Performance Medicine Summit. 

Which video is the most popular? And why? 

(Caryn) The most common question every vegan gets is, “Where do you get your protein?” And so it’s not a surprise that the Doc and Chef’s highest-rated show is devoted to protein. We knew we had to cast a wide net for our first show and we really hit a nerve. That protein show is still #1 because it is still the first question everyone asks. It used to drive us a little mad the way media and marketers would exaggerate the importance of getting vast amounts of the macronutrient, but now it seems to have worked in our favor. 

What are some common misconceptions about plant-based diets? 

(Caryn) I think it’s a tie between the perception that it is an expensive way to eat and that it’s too limiting. My quick answer is that I’d rather buy a bag of lentils over a steak any day and that I now eat a more diverse amount of food than I ever did before adding more plants to my plate. I think fear underlies all of this. It’s a scary thing to think, “Oh, gosh, what am I going to eat when I go out with my friends?” I totally get that. But when you’re looking at clogged arteries, with the very real potential for a heart attack or stroke, or you’ve just been diagnosed with type II diabetes and you’re now injecting yourself a couple of times a day and maybe on a fistful of pills, I think changing what’s on the end of your fork to reduce or even reverse the illnesses, seems like an easier fix.  

(Jim) I think another problem is the conflation between a vegan diet and a plant-based diet, which has become more prevalent as interest in a plant-based way of eating has increased.  Veganism comes from a place of compassion for animals and is centered around the concept of not harming other creatures. Vegans avoid eating and wearing animal products as well as using products tested on animals. However, there are a lot of unhealthy foods that are vegan, like French fries, potato chips and other highly processed foods. A whole-food, plant-based diet eliminates or limits animal food consumption, but also highly processed food like processed sugar, white flour, and oils. Eating foods in their natural state is what makes the whole-food, plant-based way of eating so good for you. 

What do you think prevents more people from adopting a plant-based diet? 

(Caryn) I think it is a lack of education and thus, fear. That’s why I think The Doc and Chef has been welcomed by many, because we make it as approachable and fun as we can. We like the term, “edutainment.” A little entertainment mixed in with a lot of education always seems to make for a more enjoyable experience that people remember and are more likely to institute in their own lives. 

(Jim) I think some people also fear that a plant-based diet may lead to nutrient deficiencies, particularly in protein, iron, calcium, and B12, none of which is true. There is also a perception that plant-based meals may not be as filling or satisfying as those containing meat, and that they require more time and creativity to prepare. Dispelling these “myths” is one of the main reasons we started The Doc and Chef. Additionally, some view it as more expensive, which is also not true as shown in a recent study published by researchers at the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine. Their study estimated that diets including less animal and more plant foods were up to 25% to 29% less expensive than omnivorous diets.

You both follow (and advocate for) plant-based diets. Was there a “lightbulb” moment for each of you that led you to embrace this diet? 

(Jim) In the fall of 2010 I tore my meniscus while playing with my dog. I was really busy at the time, so I had to wait a few months to get surgery. That’s when I found out you can’t outrun a mediocre, standard American Diet. I started gaining weight, which only got worse when I didn’t do the rehab after surgery. The next thing I knew, I was a patient, suffering from high cholesterol, borderline diabetes, and sleep apnea; the same conditions I saw every day in my practice. None of my doctors talked to me about a healthy lifestyle; I was taking pills and wearing a CPAP machine at night.

I knew deep down there had to be a better way to improve my health but didn’t know exactly what it was until one day I stumbled across the documentary “Forks Over Knives.” I knew right then I had found the answer and literally overnight started on a whole-food plant-based diet (WFPBD) and started rehabbing my knee. In four months, I had lost almost 40 pounds and every single one of my health issues resolved. Not only did this new lifestyle fundamentally change my personal health, but it also totally changed my approach to healthcare. 

(Caryn) In 2008 I lost my dad to cancer and then 10 weeks later, I, too, was diagnosed. That jump-started my plant-based journey! In the midst of losing my dad, mourning his loss, and then also trying to be a good and supportive daughter to my mom and sister to my brother (he and my dad were best friends), I had no idea I was getting sick. After my swift treatment (surgery), I found myself confused and angry. I thought I had always been healthy – I watched what I ate and tried to exercise regularly. I looked at what seemingly other healthy people did, and I emulated that with taking up yoga, meditation, and acupuncture – none of which stuck. I looked at my diet and remembered that growing up we always hear, “eat your fruit and vegetables.” This falls on deaf ears eventually when heard enough. My diet was far from that, as I was eating frozen low-calorie meals that lacked much color at all. I was never a big foodie and most definitely never cooked. 

At the time I was working at a medical practice, and I asked some doctor friends to guide me on how to understand medical journals/articles. That’s when things got interesting! I immersed myself in the research surrounding a vegan diet (not many people said “plant-based” in 2008) and truth be told after I came across some initial studies that said a well-rounded vegan diet had been shown to reduce the size of some tumors and can potentially reduce the recurrence significantly.

It took me a few months, and I was desperate to (hopefully) not have a recurrence. In an effort to check off every single box, one day I took all of the animal products out of our kitchen and began my vegan diet. That one stuck. 

Dr. Loomis, you completed an Ironman triathlon, at the age of 60. How was your training, and performance, influenced by your plant-based diet? 

I turned 60 in the summer of 2019. I wanted to do something epic to celebrate and decided to train for Lake Placid Ironman (a 2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike and 26.2 mile run), which was two weeks after my birthday. I had been a competitive runner in medical school, but after running a marathon back then, I would be so sore I couldn’t walk for a few days. 

Fast forward, I can honestly say I had all the energy I needed to train and rarely got sore or stiff. The only thing that changed, other than being 35 years older, was my diet.  My experience echoed that of all the athletes in the documentary “The Game Changers,” in which I had the honor of being featured. Once they transitioned to a WFPBD, their ability to recover was markedly improved, which allowed them to train harder.  

Who are some well-known athletes who follow a plant-based diet? 

(Jim) Several notable athletes have embraced plant-based or vegan diets, attributing their dietary choices to enhanced performance, quicker recovery, and overall well-being. Venus Williams, a renowned tennis player, adopted a raw vegan diet after being diagnosed with an autoimmune condition, which she credits for helping her continue her career. Lewis Hamilton, the Formula One world champion, is another prominent figure who follows a vegan diet, advocating for animal rights and environmental concerns. NBA stars Kyrie Irving and Chris Paul switched to a plant-based diet and noticed improvements in their energy levels and game performance.

Other athletes include ultramarathon runner Scott Jurek, known for his long-distance running endurance, and strongman competitor Patrik Baboumian, who has broken multiple strength records, MMA fighter James Wilks, who is featured in “Game Changers,” Olympic cyclist Dotsie Bausch, who won a silver medal at the 2012 summer Olympics, and tennis star Novak Djokovic. These athletes, among others, dispel myths about the adequacy of plant-based diets for peak physical performance.

Dr. Loomis, what is the focus (or emphasis) of the Barnard Medical Center? And do patients need to be in the Washington, DC area to be treated by you or any of the other physicians on the BMC staff? 

The Barnard Medical Center (BMC) is unique, in that we focus on using lifestyle interventions, especially a whole-food plant-based diet, to help our patients prevent, treat, and hopefully even reverse their chronic disease and improve their overall health. In fact, all the providers at BMC are board certified in Lifestyle Medicine. Although we are in Washington, DC, where we see patients in-person, you don’t need to come to DC to see one of our providers. We also offer telehealth visits and are licensed to see patients in an ever-growing number of states. There is more information and a list of states we are currently licensed on our website. 

For people who want to learn more about a plant-based diet and plant-based living, is there a book you each recommend? 

(Jim) Recommending just one book is really hard! I think Dr. Michael Greger’s book “How Not to Die” is an excellent starting point. Also, all of Dr. Neal Barnard’s books are great. Hopefully, sometime soon, there will be a book from The Doc and Chef that fits the bill!

(Caryn) One of the trailblazers in this plant-based movement is Forks Over Knives and I think they do an excellent job with all their books. If you are looking to reverse heart disease, go with Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn’s “Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease” (this was the first book I ever bought after going vegan/plant-based). For those with diabetes, Cyrus Khambatta and Robby Barbaro’s book “Mastering Diabetes” is a must read.